Knowing God
Is Knowing Jesus The Same As Knowing God?
They said to him therefore,Where is your Father?Jesus answered, "You know neither me nor my Father; if you knew me, you would know my Father also." These words he spoke in the treasury, as he taught in the temple; but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come. (John 8:19-20 RSV)
Some take this verse, along with John 10:30, and John 14:9-11 as evidence of the Trinity. But if this were so, why are there numeric features in this verse, but not in the other two? Surely if Jesus was God, the same characteristics would appear in all three verses just as they have done in the other verses presented. The fact that this verse has only a few numeric features like Exodus 34:6-7 means we should not read into it too deeply for mysterious lessons.
Jesus was basically saying the Jews of his day had already rejected him. They did not know him. And as a result they proved they didn't know God either.
The eighth Greek word in the passage below is αν (G302 an - A primary particle, denoting a supposition, wish, possibility or uncertainty: - [what-, where-, whither-, who-]soever. Usually unexpressed except by the subjunctive or potential mood. Also contraction for G1437.)1 Its sense is not quite reflected in the English. (See the interlinear version below.)
Knowing Jesus does not guarantee you will know the Father. Jesus said it was a possibility, likely
.
Many today believe they know Jesus, and that knowing Jesus they also know the Father, or God especially through the concept of the Trinity. This is not supported by John 8:19-20. The few numeric features similar to those in Exodus 34:6-7 highlight this lesson.
How does one come to know God? God told us quite plainly:
Thus says the LORD:Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, let not the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches; but let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD who practice steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth; for in these things I delight, says the LORD.(Jeremiah 9:23-24 RSV)
The quote is bracketed at both ends with says the lord
to impress upon us that this is what God said. We come to know God by seeing how He acts in the world with steadfast love, justice and righteousness.
Love, justice and righteousness all intertwine. It's not just about love without justice and righteousness.
ελεγον ουν αυτω Που εστιν ο πατηρ σου απεκριθη Ιησους Ουτε εμε οιδατε ουτε τον πατερα μου ει εμε ηδειτε και τον πατερα μου αν ηδειτε Ταυτα τα ρηματα ελαλησεν εν τω γαζοφυλακιω διδασκων εν τω ιερω και ουδεις επιασεν αυτον οτι ουπω εληλυθει η ωρα αυτου (John 8:19-20 GNT)2
In the Greek, 17 words have to be dropped from the beginning of verse 19, and one from the end of verse 20. If these words were included, there would be no numeric features.3
1 2 3 4 5 14 40 130 20 200 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 5- 9 5- 30- 5 7- 4- 5- 9- 100- 5 10- 1- 9 100- 60- 40 if me you had known also the 6 7 8 9 257 290 41 130 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 70- 1- 100- 5- 80- 1 30- 60- 200 1- 40 7- 4- 5- 9- 100-5 Father of me likely you had known. 10 11 12 402 101 219 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 100- 1- 200- 100- 1 100- 1 80- 7- 30- 1- 100- 1 These the sayings 13 14 15 16 188 45 700 1210 48 49 0 51 2 53 4 55 6 57 58 59 60 1 2 63 64 65 66 7 68 9 70 5- 20-1-20-7-90-5-40 5-40 100-600 3- 1-6-60-300-200-20-1-10-9-600 he spoke in the treasury 17 18 19 20 758 45 700 694 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 4- 9- 4- 1- 90- 10- 600- 40 5- 40 100- 600 9- 5- 80- 600 teaching in the temple; 21 22 23 20 368 220 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 10- 1- 9 60- 200- 4- 5- 9- 90 5- 70- 9- 1- 90- 5- 40 and no one got hold of 24 25 26 401 169 930 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 1- 200- 100- 60- 40 60- 100- 9 60- 200- 70- 600 him, because not yet 27 28 29 274 7 681 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 5- 20- 7- 20- 200- 8- 5- 9 7 600- 80- 1 had come the hour4
Numeric Features
Primary Features
(Derived from Revelation 1:8 and grouped for easy reference.)
A.1Numeric total: 9254 = 2 x 7 x 661. (See feature 2.2.)
A.5Number of letters: 126 = 2 x 3 x 3 x 7. (See feature 2.1.)
B.4Every other letter (odd): 3703 = 7 x 23 x 23. (See feature 3.3.)
B.4.2Every other letter (even): 5551 = 7 x 13 x 61. (See feature 3.4.)
C.3.2First and last letter of each word: 5236 = 2 x 2 x 7 x 11 x 17. (See feature 5.3.)
D.2.2First word of each verse: 416 = 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 13. (See feature 1.1.)
D.2.3First letter of each verse: 105 = 3 x 5 x 7. (See feature 1.2.)
D.3.3First letter of each word: 1554 = 2 x 3 x 7 x 37. (See feature 5.1.)
E.3.3Last letter of each word: 3682 = 2 x 7 x 263. (See feature 5.2.)
F.4First half of the letters: 2847 = 3 x 13 x 73. (See feature 9.)
Verse features
1.1First word of each verse: 416 = 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 13.
1.2First letter of each verse: 105 = 3 x 5 x 7.
Words And Letters
2.1Number of letters: 126 = 2 x 3 x 3 x 7.
2.2Numeric total: 9254 = 2 x 7 x 661.
3.1The positions of the odd valued words:
6 8 11 12 14 18 24 25 28 29 257 41 101 219 45 45 401 169 7 681
Position total: 175 = 5 x 5 x 7. (The word values have no feature.)
3.2The positions of even valued words:
a) 1 2 3 4 5 7 9 10 13 15 16 17 19 20 21 22 23 b) 14 40 130 20 200 290 130 402 188 700 1210 758 700 694 20 368 220 a) 26 27 b) 930 274
Position total: 260 = 2 x 2 x 5 x 13. (Again the word value have no feature.)
5 5 5 4 9 5 1 100 40 1 5 1 60 1 7 5 100 100 200 1 1 7 1 1 20 20 90 40 40 600 1 60 200 1 9 4 4 90 600 5 100 9 80 10 9 200 5 90 70 1 5 1 100 40 100 60 70 5 7 200 5 7 80
Position total: 3703 = 7 x 23 x 23.
9 30 7 5 100 10 9 60 70 100 80 30 200 40 4 9 5 1 100 100 80 30 100 5 1 7 5 5 100 3 6 300 20 10 600 9 1 10 40 40 600 5 600 1 60 4 9 5 9 90 40 200 60 60 9 200 600 20 20 8 9 600 1
Position total: 5551 = 7 x 13 x 61.
4.1Odd valued letters:
a) 1 2 3 5 6 8 9 11 13 14 19 21 23 27 29 31 32 34 b) 5 9 5 5 7 5 9 5 1 9 1 5 1 1 7 5 9 5 a) 36 39 41 43 45 47 48 50 52 54 56 60 61 67 69 72 b) 1 1 1 7 1 1 5 1 7 5 5 3 1 1 9 9 a) 74 79 83 84 88 89 93 94 96 98 99 101 103 110 115 b) 1 5 9 5 1 9 5 9 5 9 1 5 1 9 5 a) 117 121 122 123 126 b) 7 5 9 7 1
Position total: 3143 = 7 x 449. Total of the letters: 260 = 2 x 2 x 5 x 13.
4.2Even valued letters:
a) 4 7 10 12 15 16 17 18 20 22 24 25 26 28 30 33 35 b) 30 4 100 10 100 60 40 70 100 80 30 60 200 40 4 100 100 a) 37 38 40 42 44 46 49 51 53 55 57 58 59 62 63 64 b) 200 100 100 80 30 100 20 20 90 40 40 100 600 6 60 300 a) 65 66 68 70 71 73 75 76 77 78 80 81 82 85 86 87 b) 200 20 10 600 4 4 90 10 600 40 40 100 600 80 600 10 a) 90 91 92 95 97 100 102 104 105 106 107 108 109 111 b) 60 200 4 90 70 90 40 200 100 60 40 60 100 60 a) 112 113 114 116 118 119 120 124 125 b) 200 70 600 20 20 200 8 600 80
Position total: 4858 = 2 x 7 x 347. (No feature with the value of the letters.)
5.1The first letter of each word:
1 3 6 12 15 18 24 27 29 35 40 42 48 56 58 60 71 79 81 83 87 90 96 103 5 5 7 10 100 70 30 1 7 100 100 80 5 5 100 3 4 5 100 9 10 60 5 1 108 111 115 123 124 60 60 5 7 600
Letter total: 1554 = 2 x 3 x 7 x 37. SF: 49 = 7 x 7. SF: 14 = 2 x 7. (The sum of the positions have no feature.)
5.2The last letter of each word:
2 5 11 14 17 23 26 28 34 39 41 47 55 57 59 70 78 80 82 86 89 95 102 9 5 5 9 40 1 200 40 5 1 1 1 40 40 600 600 40 40 600 600 9 90 40 107 110 114 122 123 126 40 9 600 9 7 1
Letter total: 3682 = 2 x 7 x 263.
5.3First and last paired and then added together:
a) 3 8 17 26 32 41 50 55 63 74 81 89 103 113 117 130 b) 14 10 12 19 140 71 230 41 12 101 101 81 45 45 700 603 a) 149 159 163 169 176 185 198 210 218 225 237 246 250 b) 44 45 700 609 19 150 45 41 69 660 14 14 601
First and last letters: 5236 = 2 x 2 x 7 x 11 x 17. SF: 39 = 3 x 13.
5.4Letters that are not first OR last:
a) 4 7 8 9 10 13 16 19 20 21 22 25 30 31 32 33 36 b) 30 4 5 9 100 1 60 1 100 5 80 60 4 5 9 100 1 a) 37 38 43 44 45 46 49 50 51 52 53 54 61 62 63 64 b) 200 100 7 30 1 100 20 1 20 7 90 5 1 6 60 300 a) 65 66 67 68 69 72 73 74 75 76 77 84 85 88 91 92 b) 200 20 1 10 9 9 4 1 90 10 600 5 80 1 200 4 a) 93 94 97 98 99 100 101 104 105 106 109 112 113 116 b) 5 9 70 9 1 90 5 200 100 60 100 200 70 20 a) 117 118 119 120 121 125 b) 7 20 200 8 5 80
Position total: 4537 = 13 x 349. Letter total: 4025 = 5 x 5 x 7 x 23.
6.1Words where a letter first appeared:
20 1210 130 14 1210 130 274 14 20 188 40 200 200 257 257 188 130 290 1210 700
Word total: 6682 = 2 x 13 x 257.
6.2Words where a letter appeared last:
681 1210 368 274 1210 7 274 274 20 274 219 401 930 930 681 220 169 274 1210 681
Word total: 10307. There is no feature until...
6.3First and last: 16989 = 3 x 7 x 809. SF: 819 = 3 x 3 x 7 x 13. SF: 26 = 2 x 13.
7.The sums of the word positions where these letters (5 8 30 60 70 80 90 100) appeared are all odd numbers.
7.1Total of all the word positions: 754 = 2 x 13 x 29.
7.2Total of all the letter appearances: 52 = 2 x 2 x 13.
7.3Total of all letter positions: 3087 = 3 x 3 x 7 x 7 x 7.
Sadly there is no equivalent for the sums of the word positions that are even numbers.
8.Similar to Exodus 34:6-7, various sequences of letters can be pulled from the passage. These are not random sequences, but sequences based on the number of letters in the passage.
8.1Letters from 1 to 126 every 3:
a) 1 4 7 10 13 16 19 22 25 28 31 34 37 40 43 46 49 b) 5 30 4 100 1 60 1 80 60 40 5 5 200 100 7 100 20 a) 52 55 58 61 64 67 70 73 76 79 82 85 88 91 94 97 b) 7 40 100 1 300 1 600 4 10 5 600 80 1 200 9 70 a) 100 103 106 109 112 115 118 121 124 b) 90 1 60 100 200 5 20 5 600
Letter total: 3927 = 3 x 7 x 11 x 17.
8.1.1Letters from 3 to 126 every 3:
a) 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 b) 5 7 9 10 100 70 5 30 1 4 100 1 1 80 1 5 20 a) 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 b) 5 40 3 60 20 9 9 90 40 100 5 10 60 5 5 1 a) 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 b) 40 100 60 60 600 7 8 7 1
Letter total: 1794 = 2 x 3 x 13 x 23.
8.2Letters from 9 to 126 every 9:
9 18 27 36 45 54 63 72 81 90 99 108 117 126 9 70 1 1 1 5 60 9 100 60 1 60 7 1
Letter total: 385 = 5 x 7 x 11.
8.3Letters from 14 to 126 every 14:
14 28 42 56 70 84 98 112 126 9 40 80 5 600 5 9 200 1
Letter total: 949 = 13 x 73.
8.4Letters from 1 to 126 every 21:
1 22 43 64 85 106 5 80 7 300 80 60
Letter total: 532 = 2 x 2 x 7 x 19.
9First half of the letters: 2847 = 3 x 13 x 73.
Conclusion
Knowing Jesus is a step to knowing God, but it is not the only step. Knowing Jesus makes it more likely we will know God, but it is not a guarantee. Jesus said only he has seen and known God (John 1:18), and he makes God knowable to others.
Notes
- Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible, by James Strong, Riverside Book & Bible House, Iowa.
- The Hebrew or Greek text is from Bibleworks 3.0 by Hermeneutika, Michael S. Bushell, 1995, translated into HTML entities. Vowel marks and punctuation from the Hebrew have been removed. Greek accent marks and punctuation have also been removed.
- The fact that so many words had to be dropped from the first verse is also another sign these are not verses with deep spiritual truths.
- The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, by New World Bible Translation Committee, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, Inc., 1969 (This is not to advocate for the Jehovah's Witnesses or to support them. It is listed because the book was a Greek-English interlinear easily obtainable at a time of limited means and when interlinear books were extremely difficult to find and expensive.)