Bible Numbers 2.0

Knowing God

Is Knowing Jesus The Same As Knowing God?

They said to him therefore, Where is your Father? Jesus answered, You know neither me nor my Father; if you knew me, you would know my Father also. These words he spoke in the treasury, as he taught in the temple; but no one arrested him, because his hour had not yet come. (John 8:19-20 RSV)

Some take this verse, along with John 10:30, and John 14:9-11 as evidence of the Trinity. But if this were so, why are there numeric features in this verse, but not in the other two? Surely if Jesus was God, the same characteristics would appear in all three verses just as they have done in the other verses presented. The fact that this verse has only a few numeric features like Exodus 34:6-7 means we should not read into it too deeply for mysterious lessons.

Jesus was basically saying the Jews of his day had already rejected him. They did not know him. And as a result they proved they didn't know God either.

The eighth Greek word in the passage below is αν (G302 an - A primary particle, denoting a supposition, wish, possibility or uncertainty: - [what-, where-, whither-, who-]soever. Usually unexpressed except by the subjunctive or potential mood. Also contraction for G1437.)1 Its sense is not quite reflected in the English. (See the interlinear version below.)

Knowing Jesus does not guarantee you will know the Father. Jesus said it was a possibility, likely.

Many today believe they know Jesus, and that knowing Jesus they also know the Father, or God especially through the concept of the Trinity. This is not supported by John 8:19-20. The few numeric features similar to those in Exodus 34:6-7 highlight this lesson.

How does one come to know God? God told us quite plainly:

Thus says the LORD: Let not the wise man glory in his wisdom, let not the mighty man glory in his might, let not the rich man glory in his riches; but let him who glories glory in this, that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD who practice steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in the earth; for in these things I delight, says the LORD. (Jeremiah 9:23-24 RSV)

The quote is bracketed at both ends with says the lord to impress upon us that this is what God said. We come to know God by seeing how He acts in the world with steadfast love, justice and righteousness. Love, justice and righteousness all intertwine. It's not just about love without justice and righteousness.

ελεγον ουν αυτω Που εστιν ο πατηρ σου απεκριθη Ιησους Ουτε εμε οιδατε ουτε τον πατερα μου ει εμε ηδειτε και τον πατερα μου αν ηδειτε Ταυτα τα ρηματα ελαλησεν εν τω γαζοφυλακιω διδασκων εν τω ιερω και ουδεις επιασεν αυτον οτι ουπω εληλυθει η ωρα αυτου (John 8:19-20 GNT)2

In the Greek, 17 words have to be dropped from the beginning of verse 19, and one from the end of verse 20. If these words were included, there would be no numeric features.3

1       2           3                       4            5
14      40          130                     20           200
1  2    3  4   5    6   7  8  9  10   11    12  13 14    15   16  17
5- 9    5- 30- 5    7-  4- 5- 9- 100- 5     10- 1- 9     100- 60- 40
if      me          you had known           also         the

6                        7              8          9
257                      290            41         130
18  19 20   21 22  23    24  25  26     27 28      29  30 31 32 33  34
70- 1- 100- 5- 80- 1     30- 60- 200    1- 40      7-  4- 5- 9- 100-5
Father                   of me          likely     you had known.

10                      11         12
402                     101        219
35   36 37   38   39    40   41    42  43 44  45 46   47
100- 1- 200- 100- 1     100- 1     80- 7- 30- 1- 100- 1
These                   the        sayings

13                     14    15        16
188                    45    700       1210
48 49 0 51 2 53 4 55   6 57  58  59    60 1 2 63 64  65  66 7 68 9 70
5- 20-1-20-7-90-5-40   5-40  100-600   3- 1-6-60-300-200-20-1-10-9-600
he spoke               in    the       treasury

17                              18       19          20
758                             45       700         694
71  72 73 74 75  76  77   78    79 80    81   82     83  84 85  86
4-  9- 4- 1- 90- 10- 600- 40    5- 40    100- 600    9-  5- 80- 600
teaching                        in       the         temple;

21           22                      23
20           368                     220
87  88 89    90  91   92 93 94 95    96  97  98 99 100 101 102
10- 1- 9     60- 200- 4- 5- 9- 90    5-  70- 9- 1- 90- 5-  40
and          no one                  got hold of

24                       25              26
401                      169             930
103 104  105  106 107    108 109  110    111 112  113 114
1-  200- 100- 60- 40     60- 100- 9      60- 200- 70- 600
him,                     because         not yet

27                                  28     29
274                                 7      681
115 116 117 118 119  120 121 122    123    124  125 126
5-  20- 7-  20- 200- 8-  5-  9      7      600- 80- 1
had come                            the    hour4

Numeric Features

Primary Features

(Derived from Revelation 1:8 and grouped for easy reference.)

A.1Numeric total: 9254 = 2 x 7 x 661. (See feature 2.2.)

A.5Number of letters: 126 = 2 x 3 x 3 x 7. (See feature 2.1.)

B.4Every other letter (odd): 3703 = 7 x 23 x 23. (See feature 3.3.)

B.4.2Every other letter (even): 5551 = 7 x 13 x 61. (See feature 3.4.)

C.3.2First and last letter of each word: 5236 = 2 x 2 x 7 x 11 x 17. (See feature 5.3.)

D.2.2First word of each verse: 416 = 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 13. (See feature 1.1.)

D.2.3First letter of each verse: 105 = 3 x 5 x 7. (See feature 1.2.)

D.3.3First letter of each word: 1554 = 2 x 3 x 7 x 37. (See feature 5.1.)

E.3.3Last letter of each word: 3682 = 2 x 7 x 263. (See feature 5.2.)

F.4First half of the letters: 2847 = 3 x 13 x 73. (See feature 9.)

Verse features

1.1First word of each verse: 416 = 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 13.

1.2First letter of each verse: 105 = 3 x 5 x 7.

Words And Letters

2.1Number of letters: 126 = 2 x 3 x 3 x 7.

2.2Numeric total: 9254 = 2 x 7 x 661.

3.1The positions of the odd valued words:

6   8  11  12  14 18 24  25  28 29
257 41 101 219 45 45 401 169 7  681

Position total: 175 = 5 x 5 x 7. (The word values have no feature.)

3.2The positions of even valued words:

a) 1  2  3   4  5   7   9   10  13  15  16   17  19  20  21  22  23  
b) 14 40 130 20 200 290 130 402 188 700 1210 758 700 694 20  368 220 

a) 26  27  
b) 930 274 
 

Position total: 260 = 2 x 2 x 5 x 13. (Again the word value have no feature.)

3.3Odd positioned letters:

5 5 5 4 9 5 1 100 40 1 5 1 60 1 7 5 100 100 200 1 1 7 1 1 20 20 90 
40 40  600 1 60 200 1 9 4 4 90 600 5 100 9 80 10 9 200 5 90 70 1 5 1 
100 40 100  60 70 5 7 200 5 7 80 

Position total: 3703 = 7 x 23 x 23.

3.4Even positioned letters:

9 30 7 5 100 10 9 60 70 100 80 30 200 40 4 9 5 1 100 100 80 30 100 5 
1 7  5 5 100 3 6 300 20 10 600 9 1 10 40 40 600 5 600 1 60 4 9 5 9 
90 40 200  60 60 9 200 600 20 20 8 9 600 1   

Position total: 5551 = 7 x 13 x 61.

4.1Odd valued letters:

a) 1  2  3  5  6  8  9  11  13  14  19  21  23  27  29  31  32  34  
b) 5  9  5  5  7  5  9  5   1   9   1   5   1   1   7   5   9   5   

a) 36  39  41  43  45  47  48  50  52  54  56  60  61  67  69  72  
b) 1   1   1   7   1   1   5   1   7   5   5   3   1   1   9   9   

a) 74  79  83  84  88  89  93  94  96  98  99  101  103  110  115  
b) 1   5   9   5   1   9   5   9   5   9   1   5    1    9    5    

a) 117  121  122  123  126  
b) 7    5    9    7    1    

Position total: 3143 = 7 x 449. Total of the letters: 260 = 2 x 2 x 5 x 13.

4.2Even valued letters:

a) 4  7  10  12  15  16  17  18  20  22  24  25  26  28  30  33  35  
b) 30 4  100 10  100 60  40  70  100 80  30  60  200 40  4   100 100 

a) 37  38  40  42  44  46  49  51  53  55  57  58  59  62  63  64  
b) 200 100 100 80  30  100 20  20  90  40  40  100 600 6   60  300 

a) 65  66  68  70  71  73  75  76  77  78  80  81  82  85  86  87  
b) 200 20  10  600 4   4   90  10  600 40  40  100 600 80  600 10  

a) 90  91  92  95  97  100  102  104  105  106  107  108  109  111  
b) 60  200 4   90  70  90   40   200  100  60   40   60   100  60   

a) 112  113  114  116  118  119  120  124  125  
b) 200  70   600  20   20   200  8    600  80   

Position total: 4858 = 2 x 7 x 347. (No feature with the value of the letters.)

5.1The first letter of each word:

1 3 6 12 15  18 24 27 29 35  40  42 48 56 58  60 71 79 81  83 87 90 96 103 
5 5 7 10 100 70 30 1  7  100 100 80 5  5  100 3  4  5  100 9  10 60 5  1

108 111 115 123 124
60  60  5   7   600

Letter total: 1554 = 2 x 3 x 7 x 37. SF: 49 = 7 x 7. SF: 14 = 2 x 7. (The sum of the positions have no feature.)

5.2The last letter of each word:

2 5 11 14 17 23 26  28 34 39 41 47 55 57 59  70  78 80 82  86  89 95 102 
9 5 5  9  40 1  200 40 5  1  1  1  40 40 600 600 40 40 600 600 9  90 40

107 110 114 122 123 126
40  9   600 9   7   1

Letter total: 3682 = 2 x 7 x 263.

5.3First and last paired and then added together:

a) 3  8  17  26  32  41  50  55  63  74  81  89  103  113  117  130  
b) 14 10 12  19  140 71  230 41  12  101 101 81  45   45   700  603  

a) 149  159  163  169  176  185  198  210  218  225  237  246  250  
b) 44   45   700  609  19   150  45   41   69   660  14   14   601  

First and last letters: 5236 = 2 x 2 x 7 x 11 x 17. SF: 39 = 3 x 13.

5.4Letters that are not first OR last:

a) 4  7  8  9  10  13  16  19  20  21  22  25  30  31  32  33  36  
b) 30 4  5  9  100 1   60  1   100 5   80  60  4   5   9   100 1   

a) 37  38  43  44  45  46  49  50  51  52  53  54  61  62  63  64  
b) 200 100 7   30  1   100 20  1   20  7   90  5   1   6   60  300 

a) 65  66  67  68  69  72  73  74  75  76  77  84  85  88  91  92  
b) 200 20  1   10  9   9   4   1   90  10  600 5   80  1   200 4   

a) 93  94  97  98  99  100  101  104  105  106  109  112  113  116  
b) 5   9   70  9   1   90   5    200  100  60   100  200  70   20   

a) 117  118  119  120  121  125  
b) 7    20   200  8    5    80   

Position total: 4537 = 13 x 349. Letter total: 4025 = 5 x 5 x 7 x 23.

6.1Words where a letter first appeared:

20 1210 130 14 1210 130 274 14 20 188 40 200 200 257 257 188 130 290 1210 700

Word total: 6682 = 2 x 13 x 257.

6.2Words where a letter appeared last:

681 1210 368 274 1210 7 274 274 20 274 219 401 930 930 681 220 169 274 1210 681

Word total: 10307. There is no feature until...

6.3First and last: 16989 = 3 x 7 x 809. SF: 819 = 3 x 3 x 7 x 13. SF: 26 = 2 x 13.

7.The sums of the word positions where these letters (5 8 30 60 70 80 90 100) appeared are all odd numbers.

7.1Total of all the word positions: 754 = 2 x 13 x 29.

7.2Total of all the letter appearances: 52 = 2 x 2 x 13.

7.3Total of all letter positions: 3087 = 3 x 3 x 7 x 7 x 7.

Sadly there is no equivalent for the sums of the word positions that are even numbers.

8.Similar to Exodus 34:6-7, various sequences of letters can be pulled from the passage. These are not random sequences, but sequences based on the number of letters in the passage.

8.1Letters from 1 to 126 every 3:

a) 1  4  7  10  13  16  19  22  25  28  31  34  37  40  43  46  49  
b) 5  30 4  100 1   60  1   80  60  40  5   5   200 100 7   100 20  

a) 52  55  58  61  64  67  70  73  76  79  82  85  88  91  94  97  
b) 7   40  100 1   300 1   600 4   10  5   600 80  1   200 9   70  

a) 100  103  106  109  112  115  118  121  124  
b) 90   1    60   100  200  5    20   5    600  

Letter total: 3927 = 3 x 7 x 11 x 17.

8.1.1Letters from 3 to 126 every 3:

a) 3  6  9  12  15  18  21  24  27  30  33  36  39  42  45  48  51  
b) 5  7  9  10  100 70  5   30  1   4   100 1   1   80  1   5   20  

a) 54  57  60  63  66  69  72  75  78  81  84  87  90  93  96  99  
b) 5   40  3   60  20  9   9   90  40  100 5   10  60  5   5   1   

a) 102  105  108  111  114  117  120  123  126  
b) 40   100  60   60   600  7    8    7    1    

Letter total: 1794 = 2 x 3 x 13 x 23.

8.2Letters from 9 to 126 every 9:

9 18 27 36 45 54 63 72 81  90 99 108 117 126
9 70 1  1  1  5  60 9  100 60 1  60  7   1

Letter total: 385 = 5 x 7 x 11.

8.3Letters from 14 to 126 every 14:

14 28 42 56 70  84 98 112 126
9  40 80 5  600 5  9  200 1

Letter total: 949 = 13 x 73.

8.4Letters from 1 to 126 every 21:

1 22 43 64  85 106
5 80 7  300 80 60

Letter total: 532 = 2 x 2 x 7 x 19.

9First half of the letters: 2847 = 3 x 13 x 73.

Conclusion

Knowing Jesus is a step to knowing God, but it is not the only step. Knowing Jesus makes it more likely we will know God, but it is not a guarantee. Jesus said only he has seen and known God (John 1:18), and he makes God knowable to others.

Note 1Strong's Exhaustive Concordance Of The Bible, by James Strong, Riverside Book & Bible House, Iowa.

Note 2The Hebrew or Greek text is from Bibleworks 3.0 by Hermeneutika, Michael S. Bushell, 1995, translated into HTML entities. Vowel marks and punctuation from the Hebrew have been removed. Greek accent marks and punctuation have also been removed.

Note 3The fact that so many words had to be dropped from the first verse is also another sign these are not verses with deep spiritual truths.

Note 4The Kingdom Interlinear Translation of the Greek Scriptures, by New World Bible Translation Committee, Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, Inc., 1969 (This is not to advocate for the Jehovah's Witnesses or to support them. It is listed because the book was a Greek-English interlinear easily obtainable at a time of limited means and when interlinear books were extremely difficult to find and expensive.)

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Numbers can only be one part in the development of a Christian (2 Peter 1:5-8).